Jean interviews Craig Dowden, author of A Time to Lead: Mastering Your Self… So You Can Master Your World and positive psychology coach.
Jean interviews Craig Dowden, Ph.D., author and certified positive psychology coach
Jean 0:10
What are the secrets of becoming a really great leader?
Do you think leaders and only leaders determine change within an organization, or can people in the middle or even on the bottom effect change?
Craig 4:35
We ask ourselves: how do we create inclusive spaces, safe environments?
Who am I? What am I about? What am I looking to? What change am I looking to bring about? How can I influence that and take that personal responsibility first and foremost?
Jean 5:16
You're talking about the responsibility but the debate is about capacity.
Craig 6:04
I would ask, what are the steps that you've taken? Who have you approached? What has been the response? How often have you attempted to enact that change? What are different alternatives? Have you looked to create other advocates in a broader sense of community? How far have you reached out to get other people's perspectives, support, emotional or otherwise?
Once again, once you get to the end of that road, then you say, “Okay, so now what do I choose to do in that circumstance? What are the choices that I have?” And then from there, decide now, how am I going to continually show up? And I think that is back to kind of creating that sense of empowerment, that sense of engagement is vitally important.
Jean 7:34
When you say empathizing, who's doing the empathizing?
Craig 7:38
When you take the time to ask questions, understand the perspective, even if we have a different line of sight on things, that's all good because now we're growing our own perception of things.
Jean 8:41
You're suggesting it may be that if they have not been able to effect the change they're looking for, the way they're going about it may not be the most effective, and they need to instead go ask questions, gather support system, ask more questions.
Craig 9:29
I would say that curiosity is one of the most valuable skills that all of us can benefit from
Jean 11:11
Who qualifies as a leader in your eyes?
Craig 13:12
Leadership is really around do I trust you to have my best interest at heart if I follow you?
Craig 13:29
We all have things at our core that are important to who we are, the values we hold, that authentic self and those aspects and psychological safety, to me, is creating that environment in which the things that I most value, I find a way to be able to put on the table and we talk about it openly.
Craig 15:36
Is my voice being heard? Then, do they demonstrate that it's been valued? It doesn't mean they do what I'm saying. Do I have that sense that they've heard me, they've considered this, and they're going somewhere else? Even though I have a different perspective, I have confidence that you're looking out for me even if I don't see it.
Jean 17:22
How can you have trust and psychological safety if you can be let go with hundreds of people in one fell swoop?
Craig 17:50
Executives will say: we're in a really disruptive time right now. The world is moving so fast and things are changing.
I could stand here and say there aren't going to be any layoffs, and I can't predict that. There are too many unknowns right now, what I can commit to is when those decisions are made, they will not be made lightly. Here is the point when we will do that. Here is how we will communicate that. This is what steps will be in place for those that remain in the organization and for those that move outside of our organization.
Jean 19:53
I'm not trusting that you will take care of me no matter what, I'm trusting that you will be honest with me no matter what. You're talking about psychological safety and trust stem from transparency.
Jean 22:08
You have seven basic pillars: mindset, emotions, resilience, strengths, feedback, difficult conversations, leadership, authenticity.
Craig 22:45
My favorite definition of authentic leadership comes from Alan Mulally, the former CEO of Ford, who I collaborated with on A Time to Lead.
He said authentic leadership is when our values, our beliefs, and our behaviors are in alignment. The only thing people can see is our behaviors, and from there they draw conclusions about our values and beliefs.
Jean 25:46
There's a big debate going on now, literally on social media, can people of color be authentic in the workplace?
The reason is, if we feel disrespected, what do we do? Authentically, we would try to talk about it, but if we try to talk about it, we're accused of playing the race card or the gender card, right? We can't bring it up, therefore we can't be authentic.
Craig 26:44
They will be uncomfortable, and they will be a bit awkward. I'm going to enter into these critically important conversations. I'm going to have my own set of beliefs, experiences, biases that are essential for me to be aware of and do as much as I can around that, and do the hard work around that, like really be thoughtful.
Create an environment in which we can start this discussion, going back and forth and learning from each other around this and recognize there's going to be missteps. Let's learn from that, and take the opportunity to keep the conversation going.
Jean 30:32
Because everybody knows it's too dangerous.
Craig 30:35
Then what I would say is, so if you haven't tried it and received that reaction, if others haven't tried it, and received that, I appreciate your assumption that it's knowing or known that this would happen. Just want to think about that in terms of so, how do we know?
Jean 31:34
What you're doing is just basically the problem-solving process, the change process. Starting small, being curious.
Little openings, get social support. Even in this very dangerous, upsetting territory, you would still use the same methodology.
Craig 34:24
One of my favorite taglines is great leadership starts with great self-leadership.
Jean 37:21
You're coming back to the basics. Who are you? What do you want? What have you tried? How are you going to go about the gold? It just comes back to self.
Craig 38:01
We can assertively hold our ground without aggressively doing so. I can assert my boundaries without disrespecting you. I can honor the limits of what I'm prepared to accept without coming over onto your side of the fence.
Jean 40:38
Let's go to resilience. How do you address resilience when people say it's just too much, but I can't quit because of the kids and because of whatever?
Craig 41:47
My favorite definition of resilience came from the Center for Creative Leadership; they differentiate between pressure and stress. Pressure is the extent of the demands that our external environment places on us, stress is our internal belief about our ability to deal with those demands.
We're in a situation that you've tried to change it. It's not changing, and we can be reasonably certain that this person is not going to change on their own. Now you have choice. We can speak up, which you've already done, and then that hasn’t panned out, you can leave, which also it's not possible based on your circumstance, or we can stay. What's vitally important is to choose to stay, because as soon as it's outside like I'm forced.
And so you choose. Because otherwise, the power will come from without, rather than within, and the influence. And so that is really for all of us, reminding [us] it's a choice. I'm making the choice, and now this is a terrible consequence that I thought through and I'm prepared to accept. Because what I find, and I have this conversation as well, we beat ourselves up over choices that we've made for good reason.
Jean 46:18
That's how people go to work every day at horrible jobs so that their children can have a roof over their head. And it's a choice.
Jean 48:37
What do you want people to get from this book?
Craig 49:06
Great leadership starts with great self-leadership. Being curious about how we look at situations, and also learn in a very curious way, nonjudgmental about our emotions or our emotional lives and every single day, learn from that.
How can we best prepare ourselves in every context, personal and professional, to be the person that we feel we're born to be and keep learning on that journey.
Jean 53:09
Hang on to positive emotions. What makes them positive is they put you in alignment with your environment.
Craig Dowden, PhD, is a highly respected executive coach with the Forbes Coaches Council as well as an award-winning speaker who delivers interactive, evidence-based workshops that translate the science of leadership, team, and organizational excellence into everyday practice. He is a Charter Member of ForbesSpeakers, a highly select group of 20 individuals from around the world who are "best-in-class" in their respective areas of practice. Craig has a PhD in Psychology with a specialization in Business and is a Certified Positive Psychology Coach.
His latest book, A Time to Lead: Mastering Your Self… So You Can Master Your World, was written with Alan Mulally, the legendary former CEO of Ford Motor Company and Boeing and Sarah McArthur (co-Editor in Chief of Leader to Leader). Internationally renowned executive coach, Marshall Goldsmith, wrote the Foreword. It made the bestseller lists for both the Wall Street Journal and USA Today while also hitting #1 in 8 different categories on Amazon.
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