TRANSCRIPT FOR THIS WEEK’S INTERVIEW

Jean speaks with Beth Kaplan about belonging and inclusion.

Beth Kaplan, author of Braving the Workplace

Jean Latting, author of Conscious Change: How to Navigate Differences and Foster Inclusion in Everyday Relationships

Jean 0:00

Jean introduces Beth Kaplan, author of Braving the Workplace, who has a doctorate in learning and leadership strategy from the University of Pennsylvania.

Beth writes, “I know what it's like to be unseen, unheard and unhappy. I know what it's like to feel so much and have so much to say, but you can't find the words to express what you're going through. I know what it's like to feel tired, a deep fatigue, preventing you from absorbing joy. It's lonely, but you are not alone. We're in this together. 

“The good news is, you survive 100% of your toughest days, and I'm going to get you through the rest.”

Jean 3:10

We're going to get through it together. What's the it?

Beth 3:17

Our sense of belonging. It's understanding what makes us us and how to really deeply hold on to that. Braving the workplace means being yourself every day in a world that tells you to be something different.

Jean 4:17

Tell about your growing up and how you got to the point of wanting to even write that book.

Beth 4:42

I think belonging was always a calling. I didn't feel accepted at my home. I thought that if I loved people hard enough, they would love me back. That's real deep.

Beth 6:16

I felt completely uncomfortable in my own skin. I grew up with a very sick father and an abusive mother. So I mistakenly thought my sense of belonging came from fitting in, trying to please other people, and as I grew up, that just didn't work for me. I got more and more confident when I realized I didn't have to change anything about myself. I only had to be myself, and that's my background around belonging. 

Beth 7:25

I would say when I really learned the lesson of belonging, it was no more than maybe five years ago. And I'm 47. 

Beth 8:41

Belonging is really complex. It's not the new inclusion, it's not diversity, it's not equality, it's very different, and it's almost insulting to all of those contracts to name it something different. So for me, it became a calling and a journey.

Jean 9:30

What's the difference between belonging and inclusion and the other terms? 

Beth 9:46

The difference comes down to self. You may feel different just because you're included, doesn't mean you feel like you belong. And if you don't define your own sense of belonging and feel a belonging to yourself, you're going to remain beholden to someone else's definition. 

Inclusion is something that another person tells you, and belonging is something you determine for yourself.

Beth 10:36

I have a 17-year-old going through the college admissions process, and he feels very strongly about acceptance into a specific school or two. And what I've asked him to really stop and consider is the difference between inclusion and belonging. 

You may feel very strongly that you are a Penn State Nittany Lion. What happens if you apply and you don't get in? Does that mean you don't belong, or were you just not included? And then what happens if you apply again and do get in? Does it mean you belonged any less the first time? Probably not. It just means that someone is now allowing you to be part of that institution.

Beth 11:54

I have three gym memberships. I feel varying levels of degrees of membership to each one of them.

Beth 12:27

I have a group of ladies I work out with at 6:30 in the morning. And then I also have a trainer separately. And I go to that gym, and then I go to one that I don't know why.

Beth 12:49

Because I'm included in all, right? And at the same time, I have a deeper sense of belonging to two of them out of the three.

Jean 13:47

What you're saying then is it's not so much different types of belonging as different expressions of yourself.

Beth 14:06

It could be an aspirational feeling as well. We have something called sacrificial belonging, where you think that by giving up a part of yourself, it's going to either strengthen your sense of belonging, or it will lead to something greater. When we know that's not ever the way it works out, but we want so badly to feel that way.

Beth 14:52

It never works when you have to give up a part of yourself to be part of something larger than you. Never.

Jean 15:06

A lot of people right now are faced with that agony, do I stay in this organization that I think has betrayed my values? Or do I leave?  And if I stay, what does that say about me?

Beth 15:34

You do you. The only person that can really determine your outcome is you. So you have to really weigh out the pros and cons. Most of us need to make a living, and your work is tied to livelihood. It's irresponsible completely, for me to say, leave that job. That being said, it's weighing things out. You do not have to be the corporate cheerleader.

The other thing to know, if you say to yourself I'm leaving. I quit. It doesn't mean that any of the things that you're going through are left resolved. In fact, if you do not resolve any of the trauma from the workplace or any relationships they come with you.

Beth 17:27

We don't get our sense of belonging from religion and community and family. So the workplace has really become a destination for that, because we spend so much time there.

Beth 17:58

If you are staying at a job because you are tied to livelihood, there is no shame in that.

Beth 19:01

What you can do is implement boundaries.

Beth 19:48

If I set a boundary, and you say to me, Beth, that's not going to work for me. My choice is, is this a hill worth dying on?  

Beth 25:09 

And at the same time is when I started to read Brene Brown's writing and that shame and vulnerability that I had tried so hard to push down and push down wasn't working for me anymore. I realized that the shame I was carrying wasn't my own.

Beth 26:11

If a should or would or could came out of my mouth, I'd redirect, and that was so powerful, because I stopped those behaviors.

Jean 27:18

So you deliberately reprogrammed yourself. 

So many people aren't willing to go through the work of that because it's that number one, they think they don't have time. And number two, they think they're doomed.

Beth 28:25

If you think about it, self-loathing becomes an addiction.

Beth 29:55

I'm not one of those people that makes New Year’s resolutions once a year. I probably do it monthly, I wake up in the morning and I need to give myself a compliment every day, and it's very hard for me to do it, but I do. 

Beth 30:18

I literally will look at the mirror say, “Looking good!” and it makes me cringe so deeply, but I'm starting to feel it, and so it works. And so I would say to anyone out there listening, if you're trying to rewire your brain, start talking to yourself kinder.

Jean 31:09

There's research that says that negative self-talk, not believing in yourself, feeling isolated, not belonging, is at the root of prejudice.

Beth 31:55

Love comes from love, so that makes complete sense to me.

Beth 32:23

Care is the number one thing that people want from their supervisors and their leaders, whether it be a frontline leader all the way up to the CEO.

Jean 32:55

“They don't pay me to care. They pay me based on my numbers.”

Beth 32:59

I’m going to guarantee that if you care, you're going to get paid more, because the happier the employee is, the happier their sense of belonging.

Belonging to me is a very individual experience. And if you want people around you to feel a sense of belonging to you, to your workplace, to your book club, to anything, you have to learn a little bit more about them and what makes them tick.

Jean 36:13

I have clients under immense pressure to perform. Numbers, short term, quarter gains, all of that that they're under. You're injecting care in the midst of all of that. Tell them why they should bother. You said that care leads to productivity. The intervening variables are missing here. How does care lead to productivity?

Beth 36:52

Would you rather do something for someone you like? Or for someone you like and feel cared for? Or for someone who knows very little about you and doesn't treat you very nicely?

Beth 37:13

Most of your employees want to be loyal to you.

Jean 38:25

What do you do with an under-achieving employee? How does care fit in that? How does belonging fit in?

Beth 39:10

First of all, you have to understand where the performance is at, and what's most important, and you also need to get to know them just a little bit better. Have the values conversation. I would be very surprised if that happened, and if they were capable, if they didn't start to change their tune.

Jean 43:09

What is it that we would like that people should know that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet?

Beth 43:21

I could go on and on about how much of a fan of your work and how much your work has influenced me.

Beth 43:38 

Change scares people. It really does.

Beth 44:34

You can reach me through Dr. Beth Kaplan.com -- it's D, R, B, E, T, H, K, A, P, L, A, N.com -- or through LinkedIn. I have a newsletter around belonging at work. And then, of course, you can always reach me through any of the various things that are in the book.

Jean 45:03

What are anywhere from one to three takeaways that you want to make sure the people listening get?

Beth 45:16

You cannot belong to something fully until you belong to yourself.

Inclusion and belonging are sisters, not twins.

If you want to change the relationships in your life, you have to care back.

Jean

Thanks for listening. You can find out more about Beth in the notes below, and I appreciate your listening. 

Conscious Change has now been out for months, and we hope you will go and order it from wherever you get it online.  Or go to your bookstore and ask for it. That's even better. Thanks for listening.

Dr. Beth Kaplan Dr. Beth Kaplan, author of Braving the Workplace, is a visionary in belonging and leadership development. She is a researcher, writer, and thought leader who helps individuals and business leaders achieve their potential and overcome obstacles. She draws on her studies in human connection, learning and leadership development, and post-traumatic growth, as well as her personal journey of triumph over adversity. She is developing a groundbreaking belonging tool with the University of Pennsylvania that measures belonging and predicts propensity to thrive. Dr. Kaplan’s impact extends far and wide, with an impressive client roster that includes esteemed organizations such as Salesforce, the University of Pennsylvania, Georgetown University, and the Carnegie Foundation, among others. She has an M.S.Ed and Ed.D in Learning and Leadership Strategy from The University of Pennsylvania.

Questions to ask yourself: Do you feel a sense of belonging at work? If not, do you feel included? List a few of the ways you could initiate changes. How much would you invest in changing yourself?

Conscious Change skills
covered in this podcast

• Test negative assumptions
• Look for multiple points of view
• Consciously test your negative assumptions
• Check to see if you are making cultural assumptions
• Clear emotions
• Identify with your values, not your emotions
• Avoid emotional suppression
• Build your positive emotions
• Conscious use of self
• Accept responsibility for your own contributions
• Seek to understand others’ perspectives
• Build resilience through self-affirmation
• Initiate change
• Commit to personal change
• Surface undiscussables
• Set direction, not fixed outcomes
• Acknowledge small wins